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	<title>Comments on: Thoughts on using plates&#8230; or not! &#8211; Take 2</title>
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	<link>http://www.planetriskshow.com/thoughts-on-using-plates-or-not/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=thoughts-on-using-plates-or-not</link>
	<description>Everything about wormholes and then some, Wednesdays at 20:00 EVE Time on Split Infinity Radio</description>
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		<title>By: Quivering Palm</title>
		<link>http://www.planetriskshow.com/thoughts-on-using-plates-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-422</link>
		<dc:creator>Quivering Palm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetriskshow.com/thoughts-on-using-plates-or-not/#comment-422</guid>
		<description>lol! see you in wspace! watch that directional!! :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol! see you in wspace! watch that directional!! <img src='http://www.planetriskshow.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: haav0c</title>
		<link>http://www.planetriskshow.com/thoughts-on-using-plates-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-419</link>
		<dc:creator>haav0c</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 02:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetriskshow.com/thoughts-on-using-plates-or-not/#comment-419</guid>
		<description>shame on me for taking my eyes off the directional to type this, but as a math headed dude(dont ask what i mean by that, i&#039;m not sure either), i noticed this thingy the first time anyone explained to me what a buffer tank was, with my first thought being &quot;that&#039;s gonna be hell to rep&quot; and my second being &quot;why would you do this thing&quot;. a few days ago, we were clearing sleeper sites and the FC accidentally warped just himself to the next site instead of the fleet. needles to say, when we got there, his cane was @ 25% armor. by the time i actually had a lock on him, he was at 30% structure. he dropped to 20% before our cycles went off.
not sure why i just said that, something about we were able to rep him, but it was terribly inefficient or something or something like that.
the moral of this story is not to talk mindlessly on comments on blogposts unless you have to keep watching the direct-ohshitsistersgottago</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>shame on me for taking my eyes off the directional to type this, but as a math headed dude(dont ask what i mean by that, i&#8217;m not sure either), i noticed this thingy the first time anyone explained to me what a buffer tank was, with my first thought being &#8220;that&#8217;s gonna be hell to rep&#8221; and my second being &#8220;why would you do this thing&#8221;. a few days ago, we were clearing sleeper sites and the FC accidentally warped just himself to the next site instead of the fleet. needles to say, when we got there, his cane was @ 25% armor. by the time i actually had a lock on him, he was at 30% structure. he dropped to 20% before our cycles went off.<br />
not sure why i just said that, something about we were able to rep him, but it was terribly inefficient or something or something like that.<br />
the moral of this story is not to talk mindlessly on comments on blogposts unless you have to keep watching the direct-ohshitsistersgottago</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Quivering Palm</title>
		<link>http://www.planetriskshow.com/thoughts-on-using-plates-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-112</link>
		<dc:creator>Quivering Palm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 15:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetriskshow.com/thoughts-on-using-plates-or-not/#comment-112</guid>
		<description>/bump for updating the post :-)

your comments below:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>/bump for updating the post <img src='http://www.planetriskshow.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>your comments below:</p>
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		<title>By: Luminus Aardokay</title>
		<link>http://www.planetriskshow.com/thoughts-on-using-plates-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-110</link>
		<dc:creator>Luminus Aardokay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:46:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetriskshow.com/thoughts-on-using-plates-or-not/#comment-110</guid>
		<description>Well I guess this post has caused more chaos than the one it tries to solve =)

All numbers on sleeper damage are guesstimates and pretty far from the true ones, which give really silly and absurd results.

Sleeper damage is harsh especially when coming from the advanced battleships, but a focus fire of 3 BS&#039;es on a 80% resisted armor tanker can be withstood with the help of 4 large RR&#039;s.

If my calculations are correct and It&#039;s not the spiced quafe talking, those 4 RR&#039;s are able to rep up a 340 dps damage output. So if that 340dps is what bleeds through the 80% resists, 3 sleeper advanced Battleships have a total damage output of 1700 dps (566dps per BS) on a paper tank. The numbers of course are empirical approximations and they should by no means be taken into account as accurate ones when fitting your ship.

With the above damage model, my 60k EHP domi will pop in about 35 seconds with no RR support.. sounds about right =)

Similarly the 90% 30K EHP ship (namely the utility proteus) if standing still, will be accepting 170dps from those three BS&#039;s, requiring only two large RR&#039;s to compensate. Of course the reaction time falls down to 17 seconds before the proteus goes pop, but it&#039;s plenty of time for at least two teammates to react.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I guess this post has caused more chaos than the one it tries to solve =)</p>
<p>All numbers on sleeper damage are guesstimates and pretty far from the true ones, which give really silly and absurd results.</p>
<p>Sleeper damage is harsh especially when coming from the advanced battleships, but a focus fire of 3 BS&#8217;es on a 80% resisted armor tanker can be withstood with the help of 4 large RR&#8217;s.</p>
<p>If my calculations are correct and It&#8217;s not the spiced quafe talking, those 4 RR&#8217;s are able to rep up a 340 dps damage output. So if that 340dps is what bleeds through the 80% resists, 3 sleeper advanced Battleships have a total damage output of 1700 dps (566dps per BS) on a paper tank. The numbers of course are empirical approximations and they should by no means be taken into account as accurate ones when fitting your ship.</p>
<p>With the above damage model, my 60k EHP domi will pop in about 35 seconds with no RR support.. sounds about right =)</p>
<p>Similarly the 90% 30K EHP ship (namely the utility proteus) if standing still, will be accepting 170dps from those three BS&#8217;s, requiring only two large RR&#8217;s to compensate. Of course the reaction time falls down to 17 seconds before the proteus goes pop, but it&#8217;s plenty of time for at least two teammates to react.</p>
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		<title>By: Noah</title>
		<link>http://www.planetriskshow.com/thoughts-on-using-plates-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-109</link>
		<dc:creator>Noah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetriskshow.com/thoughts-on-using-plates-or-not/#comment-109</guid>
		<description>This is very interesting to me as I had a similar realization about 2 nights back, realizing that in a prolonged PvE scenario, an active tank is actually hindered by the use of plates, given the alternative uses for lowslots.

However, one of us is misunderstanding dps repaired. Firstly, I understand dps to be damage per second, or volley/rof.

Dps eqilibrium requires the same calculation repaired/rof. So if a lrar2 repairs 384 armor every 4.5 seconds, expresable as 85 armor rep-second, or dps tanking potential. 

So to update your numbers, 1000 dps would require 11.75 lrar2&#039;s to hold the tank. That ungodly 2500 dps would need a staggering  29.4 lrar2&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is very interesting to me as I had a similar realization about 2 nights back, realizing that in a prolonged PvE scenario, an active tank is actually hindered by the use of plates, given the alternative uses for lowslots.</p>
<p>However, one of us is misunderstanding dps repaired. Firstly, I understand dps to be damage per second, or volley/rof.</p>
<p>Dps eqilibrium requires the same calculation repaired/rof. So if a lrar2 repairs 384 armor every 4.5 seconds, expresable as 85 armor rep-second, or dps tanking potential. </p>
<p>So to update your numbers, 1000 dps would require 11.75 lrar2&#8242;s to hold the tank. That ungodly 2500 dps would need a staggering  29.4 lrar2&#8242;s.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Luminus Aardokay</title>
		<link>http://www.planetriskshow.com/thoughts-on-using-plates-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-108</link>
		<dc:creator>Luminus Aardokay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 02:50:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.planetriskshow.com/thoughts-on-using-plates-or-not/#comment-108</guid>
		<description>Quiv, that 10k DPS mark you&#039;re assuming is excruciatingly high. 4 Sleeper Battleships can dish out about 5 to 8k volley damage, which is nowhere near that 10k mark.

That being said, gsputi over at battleclinic is right about those calculations being wrong as the amount of Effective hit points is dependent on the hardeners. 

Even so, the whole trick with the sleepers is that a fleet&#039;s effort is not to outlast them as they do sport formidable tanks, but to outheal their damage output.

Plates will indeed help until the team switches targets and start remote repairing, but since their presence means usually lower resistances, the absolute number of hit points registering as damage is going to be bigger and therefore pose more of a strain in remote repairing. More repairers needed, longer cycles, more cap, and it then goes downhill.

This is more apparent considering that on the more difficult sites there are multiple waves of sleepers, which if handled wrong can eat through buffer tanks like butter by outperforming the remote repairers.

In the end, Quivering&#039;s numbers might be way off the scale and the calculations wrong, but the denominator is the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quiv, that 10k DPS mark you&#8217;re assuming is excruciatingly high. 4 Sleeper Battleships can dish out about 5 to 8k volley damage, which is nowhere near that 10k mark.</p>
<p>That being said, gsputi over at battleclinic is right about those calculations being wrong as the amount of Effective hit points is dependent on the hardeners. </p>
<p>Even so, the whole trick with the sleepers is that a fleet&#8217;s effort is not to outlast them as they do sport formidable tanks, but to outheal their damage output.</p>
<p>Plates will indeed help until the team switches targets and start remote repairing, but since their presence means usually lower resistances, the absolute number of hit points registering as damage is going to be bigger and therefore pose more of a strain in remote repairing. More repairers needed, longer cycles, more cap, and it then goes downhill.</p>
<p>This is more apparent considering that on the more difficult sites there are multiple waves of sleepers, which if handled wrong can eat through buffer tanks like butter by outperforming the remote repairers.</p>
<p>In the end, Quivering&#8217;s numbers might be way off the scale and the calculations wrong, but the denominator is the same.</p>
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